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Post by Jandalf on Toast on Jun 30, 2005 12:30:57 GMT -5
(cackles at Faust's lime)
Yes, I agree with you there. Everyone does have gray areas. There are many things that most Christians are doing wrong that other world religions have down pat, I believe. It's simply because humans are fallible. But rather than one big gray blob, I think things come in a gradient, with one tiny black sliver at one end, and a tiny white sliver at the other, with various shades of gray in between. I don't think any human on earth can possibly attain either extreme, but I do believe those extremes exist, God and Satan exemplifying them. However, I believe that wherever a person may fall in that gray scope does not affect their ability to be saved.
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Post by Faust-Dark Lord Reborn on Jun 30, 2005 13:15:04 GMT -5
Now just saying: I'm not advertising Satan, but here I go.
Is Satan pure evil? I mean he was good once, but think of Yin + Yang: very evil yet has a tiny sliver of good in him.
I'm just sayin'. So lets say I think it isn't possible for any being become pure evil.
Exactly.
Now that I'm done with that. *evaporates*
((Glad you like my lime Jandalf))
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Fear Daughter
Ranger of the North
We will find the infidels. And we will give them agony undying...
Posts: 82
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Post by Fear Daughter on Jun 30, 2005 14:15:33 GMT -5
*insanely happy* It is now time for my good vs. evil speach...*ahem*
Most people who would say they are Christians (including myself, once upon a time) have a wrong view of good and evil. We defend ourselves as if we were dualists. We view good and evil as equal, opposite forces. This is NOT a good way to look at things!
Restructure your thinking (at least for now): God is good. He is perfection. Goodness is the attributes of God, God's perfection. Everything that is good is imitative of these attributes, and a part of this perfection. Good is the standard. Evil is what falls short of the standard.
This is why the imagery of light and dark are so appropriate. Light is something, while dark is nothing. We don't think of dark as a "force" a "power", or even a "thing" at all. Dark is the absence of light. Light is NOT the absence of dark. We measure degrees of dark by how much light is present NOT by "how much" dark is present. Dark is nothing: it is only what, and how much, less than perfection--light.
Of course, there are different degrees. We can say that it is light, but we may only mean that some light is present. Or that it is dark, but it's really only shade. There are shades of light fading into dark. But, in order for there even to BE shades of light and dark PROVES that there are ABSOLUTE, COMPLETE LIGHT AND DARK. How else could they come together to make shades of grey?
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Post by Faust-Dark Lord Reborn on Jun 30, 2005 14:18:41 GMT -5
Anyway, I guess this is a creation thread so we better stay on topic okay? ((There. I've done my part to try to swing this thread back to topic))
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Post by Trinity on Jun 30, 2005 15:04:27 GMT -5
*laughs* You're right, Faust! Back on topic, peoples! And if you want to start a thread on Good vs. Evil, go for it!
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Post by SilverSergyon13 on Jun 30, 2005 16:41:17 GMT -5
Sorry can't resist this saying:
"The only thing faster and greater than light is darkness. Light is fast, but it travels only to find that the darkness got there first."
Srry, that saying just amuses me so!
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Post by Jandalf on Toast on Jun 30, 2005 17:59:41 GMT -5
True, but God existed in darkness even before creation...he's in darkness as well as light. Heh. Then he made stuff.
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Post by Faust-Dark Lord Reborn on Jun 30, 2005 19:41:01 GMT -5
So would that make God the King of darkness and Satan the prince of darkness? Makes sense of the whole "prince of darkness" thing.
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Post by SilverSergyon13 on Jun 30, 2005 22:16:08 GMT -5
Whoah...it does make sense...*creepy music plays*
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Fear Daughter
Ranger of the North
We will find the infidels. And we will give them agony undying...
Posts: 82
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Post by Fear Daughter on Jul 5, 2005 13:59:50 GMT -5
That's sick, and not what I meant at all.
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Post by Jandalf on Toast on Jul 5, 2005 15:18:04 GMT -5
Agreed. God permeates darkness as much as he does light, but in essence he is the light. It's an interesting argument: God is perfect, and therefore he sees, knows, and is in everything, and so I see him as perfect because he is in darkness as well as in light, and not in spite of it.
Talking about light, though, as part of creationism - it's plain reading that God created light before he created anything that emitted light. Light came before the sun and all the other stars...this is one argument that many people who believe in evolution will use against the creationism side of things. However, the Bible notes that heaven will require no sun, moon, or star, because God will be the literal source of light. I'm thinking God first "gave off" light himself, if you will, then applied it to objects of his creation.
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Post by Faust-Dark Lord Reborn on Jul 5, 2005 16:19:23 GMT -5
Please note that I didn't mean that God was evil in any way. But if God is the creator of everything then he is the creater of darkness (not evil, just the lack of artificial light or sunlight), thus being its master/king. So I apologize.
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Post by Master Warious on Jul 5, 2005 18:04:02 GMT -5
Then I suggest that everyone on this thread watch how they phrase things or there will be problems. Understand? All of you?
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Fear Daughter
Ranger of the North
We will find the infidels. And we will give them agony undying...
Posts: 82
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Post by Fear Daughter on Jul 5, 2005 19:54:14 GMT -5
Got it. Thanks for clearing that up, Faust. I agree that God is in control of evil as well as good, but he is certainly not a part of evil himself.
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Post by SilverSergyon13 on Jul 6, 2005 2:35:46 GMT -5
"Then I suggest that everyone on this thread watch how they phrase things or there will be problems. Understand? All of you?"
I'm at my wits end right now because of another site and I find that a bit harsh. Problems? What problems? We've already been threatened with a banning, we've already been threatened to have our topics locked, and us who disagree have also gotten a reality board made because our beliefs didn't fit in with the high and mighty "Christian" beliefs. All for what?...believing differently then the rest of ya'lls. I don't get it. I don't get how people can think like this....
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Post by Faust-Dark Lord Reborn on Jul 6, 2005 9:59:39 GMT -5
Okay. First may I ask that no one comes down hard on Silver for what she said.
Next I'd like to say I agree with what she says, to a degree. We've gotten topics moved, locked, and we've been threatened to be banned. Lots of people here say that we go out of line, yet they themselves say things that are out of line too (at times, just like we say things out of line at time. Everybody does at some point), like *insert religion* is wrong.
Next: About my "King of darkness" comment. I phrased it the way I wanted to. I thought it wasn't out of line. I thought that everybody here knew that I wasn't anti God or pro Satan. I assumed that maybe some of you have wondered why Satan is called the "prince" of darkness and not the king. If there is a prince there must have, or is, a king. Logically that would be God.
And lastly: ON TOPIC PEOPLE!!! ((I've been trying my hardest to get topics on topic! If you want to say something ther is the "Reality Board", which isn't a religion board, go figure, and this board. Make a new thread!!! Please, I'm begging you guys))
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Post by SilverSergyon13 on Jul 6, 2005 11:56:20 GMT -5
Well said, well said.
And now back on topic...what was the topic again? lol ;-)
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Post by Joan Omnipresent on Jul 6, 2005 14:43:33 GMT -5
Silver, I'm going to overlook what you've said as a favor to Faust.
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Post by SilverSergyon13 on Jul 6, 2005 15:32:18 GMT -5
Do what ever you please, Joan.
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Post by Jandalf on Toast on Jul 6, 2005 18:21:43 GMT -5
In an ideal world, we'd all be able to discuss things without aggravating each others' nerves, and I still think that's what we should aim for. I think Warious added that "all of you?" for a reason, though, because both "sides", if you will, are each responsible for their own slips here and there. On a side note, it might be possible to have a Religions subboard made in the Reality board. But anyway. Back to the topic at hand. Yes, Satan's looked upon as the prince of darkness rather than the king, and I think that's because while he tried to usurp the role of God, he has never attained it: that position of King, or Lord, or any of God's other titles. You'll notice that Satan has never managed to actually originally create anything of his own – all of the things he "made" are twisted deviations of God's own creation. It's a sort of parallel to breaking copyright, in a sense. Satan is the ultimate of plagiarists, and I must comment upon my lack of respect in the case of plagiarism.
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