|
|
Post by Jareth on Jun 20, 2005 21:14:48 GMT -5
I have six questions for ya'll:
Where do you go when you die?
What is the nature of God?
What is the nature of man?
How do you know what you're saying is true?
What if you're wrong?
What difference does it make that you're right or wrong?
please answer honestly
|
|
|
|
Post by Dûncariel is Dead. on Jun 20, 2005 21:46:19 GMT -5
All right, here are my six answeres.
1. Where you go when you die. Through Christ's blood that was shed on the cross, all those who believe in him may enter Heaven, because their sins have been covered by the shed blood of Jesus. Those who spurn Christ's sacrifice are still covered in their sin, which God cannot tolerate, and cannot pass into Heaven, simply for that reason.
2. God is love. (I John 4:16)
3. The nature of man is to sin. We are born sinners. No one teaches you as a child to lie, yet it happens anyway.
4. I'm not quite sure what you mean by this question. I know the nature of God from what it says in the Bible, same with my beliefs on Heaven, and my beliefs of the nature of man. If what the Bible says is true, then what I say is echoing it. But, if you do not believe in the Bible, then whatever I have said in this post will make no difference, because what I say -- to you-- will be false.
5. You may believe I am wrong, but that will not change how I believe. I can't afford to be wrong.
6. As I said before, I can't afford to be wrong. Placing my trust in God is everything. If I'm wrong, and Heaven and Hell does not exist, then I'll just be dead. End of Story. If I'm wrong, then I've been leading people astray.
|
|
CJ
Agent of Gondor
"oooh, what have we here?" "it's a man cub, it is."
Posts: 181
|
Post by CJ on Jun 20, 2005 22:05:06 GMT -5
hmmm...
1. heaven if you're Christian, hell if you're not
2..... I don't know what you mean
3.EVIL!!! EVIL!!! MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
4. faith!
5. if I'm wrong... it kind of depends on who's right, if the evolutionists are right, I'm going to rot in my grave, so it doesn't make a difference, if the Muslims are right, I better get a man to invite me to be with Allah, or I will burn in hell, and if the Mormans are right, I better get my act together...and so on and so on...
6. a whole lot of difference! If I'm wrong... I could be going who knows where! but I know I'm right, as everyone else here is sure they're right...
I have a question, what difference does it make who is scientifically right? I mean, you could argue forever and ever and ever, but really, science doesn't matter... it's your spiritual self that's going to heaven or hell, not your body; so all that argument in "in the beginning" doesn't really matter. you're all firm and "so sure" what you believe is true, all you want to do is defend your point of view. so what's the point?
|
|
|
|
Post by Trinity on Jun 21, 2005 11:06:31 GMT -5
Okay, here goes...
1) If you believe in Christ, you are going to heaven. If not, well... that's going to be one hot eternity.
2) God is loving, patient (thank heavens for that one!), and forgiving. And that's just half of it, I'm sure.
3) Each person is born with a sin nature because of what happened in the Garden of Eden. When you accept Christ, however, you are no longer a slave to this nature. You have a choice whether to listen to it or not.
3) How do I know what I'm saying is true? Because of what the Bible says and my faith in God (Faith is the substabce of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen, Hebrews 11:1)
4) If i'm wrong, then I don't know.
5) Whether I'm right or wrong is the difference of what happens after I die and where I spend eternity. If I'm right, heaven here I come! If not, then I don't know. And if I'm wrong, everything I have believed in my entire life will have been a lie.
|
|
|
|
Post by Master Warious on Jun 21, 2005 16:58:46 GMT -5
My turn!
1.Where do you go when you die?
Six feet under or to the crematory. Oh you mean the soul! oops...
If one has a relationship with Jesus Christ then you go to be with him in heaven
If you don't then you (please pardon the expression) go to Hell...literally
2. What is the nature of God?
God is Love and God is True Power. (people's perception of power is nothing beside God who is Power and Powerful)
3. What is the nature of man?
Man has a sinfull nature and is not basically good. You don't need to teach a child how to lie.
4. How do you know what you're saying is true?
Because God has revealed his word as truth (by which definition I mean fact)
5. What if you're wrong?
I'm not.
6. What difference does it make that you're right or wrong?
The very difference between life and death.
|
|
|
|
Post by Faust-Dark Lord Reborn on Jun 21, 2005 18:29:32 GMT -5
1. Somewhere. I kinda hope its good, heaven maybe? And if you're really bad? I dunno, hopefully somewhere not as horrible as hell sounds, cuz hell sounds really bad.
2. God (or if you're not Christian, a creator) is the big guy/gal, the guy/gal who made you. His/her nature is to be there, he's kinda done creating and he's/she sitting back and watching what he/she's done.
3. Man isn't perfect, yet isn't evil. I forget the where this quote comes from but here it goes: "Man's purpose is to cause pain, we cause suffering the moment we are thrown into this world." I agree yet I'll also say that people also are here to bring eachother joy along with the suffering.
4. I don't.
5. I hope the afterlife has a pool. *sorry* I guess I hope that I'll be happy.
6. The fact that I'm right or wrong makes no difference. You beleive what you beleive, I beleive what I beleive.
((My apologies if people don't agree with this.))
|
|
|
|
Post by SilverSergyon13 on Jun 21, 2005 20:40:26 GMT -5
I don't mean to get into an argument about this, but a lot of people have said you don't need to teach a child to lie. This is incorrect. You may not need to try and teach a child to lie, but they learn how to do so by watching others. People sin because they are raised by other people who sin. Children learn from the sinful acts committed by their parents.
If you were to give a baby to a gorilla to raise, that baby would not lie, nor would it sin as humans do (or sin as described by humans). The child would learn from the being it is raised by and therefore take on the Manners of that being.
I will have to answer the questions later. Don't have time to now.
|
|
|
|
Post by Joan Omnipresent on Jun 21, 2005 20:45:05 GMT -5
Care to bring any proof?
|
|
|
|
Post by Faust-Dark Lord Reborn on Jun 21, 2005 20:48:21 GMT -5
Children raised by dogs/ wolves. Its happened and they don't lie, in fact they are confused by the idea of lying.
|
|
|
|
Post by SilverSergyon13 on Jun 21, 2005 20:52:31 GMT -5
Proof of a child not lying because it was raised by gorillas? Be more specific with what you want me to proove if you could (That's a whole lot to proove all together there). But for the time being, think about this:
Most of the time (Not all of the time) if a child is brought up with alcoholic parents, they themselves will grow to be alcoholics. If a child grew up with an abusive parents, most of the time, they will grow up to be abusive. If a child grows up with parents who often lie, they themselves will often lie.
Humans are very much visual learners. We do as we see done. You ever here a child curse that has never heard cursing in the house before? If you ask them where they learned to curse from, they will most often tell you they learned it from a friend or from TV. People just don't automatically know how to do things, you learn most of what you know from watching others. It could be the smallest thing, and often times we don't even realize we are learning or picking up certain things, but it happens every single day.
You don't see dogs, cats, horses, or any other animal for that matter lying. If a human was never exposed to lying, they would never know how to do it, unless they learned somehow, or discovered, which is another type of learning. Newborn babies don't lie, do they?
|
|
|
|
Post by SilverSergyon13 on Jun 21, 2005 20:52:52 GMT -5
Yes, what Faust said.
|
|
|
|
Post by Joan Omnipresent on Jun 21, 2005 21:02:17 GMT -5
Perhaps they have not learned to tell a lie. That's not the issue. Are they deceitful? Yes, because it is there nature.
All that is true, but irrelevant. Why should that lead me to believe that they would not act in a sinful way without that influence?
No. But I have heard children who have never been around people who curse use the worst words they can imagine. The worst thing they can think of may not be all that bad, but it is evidence of a dirty, sin-sick heart. This is the whole point: we cannot use word we have not learned, but words are only representations of ideas and feelings. The ideas and feelings come from within us--a bad heart.
Silver, I'm surprised at you. Those issues are entirely unrelated, prove nothing, are besides impossible, and are not even worth the time to refute.
|
|
|
|
Post by SilverSergyon13 on Jun 21, 2005 21:26:27 GMT -5
I don't even understand what you are talking about? How can you not see the relevance?
They are not impossible, as everything I have explained has happened. I've known people with abusive parents who are now themselves abusive, I know alcoholics who had alcoholic parents, and I have read ALOT about children being orphaned and raised by animals.
What I am trying to say is that humans learn from other humans. Therefore if we grow up in an environment where we never learn deceit or lieing we will never commit those acts. The fact is we are capable of doing so, but only if we are taught in some way how.
"Perhaps they have not learned to tell a lie. That's not the issue. Are they deceitful? Yes, because it is there nature."
Deceit, do you mean like fooling? Everything fools. It is a way of living, a way of survival. Camouflage is a type of deceit. Lieing is something only humans do.
"All that is true, but irrelevant. Why should that lead me to believe that they would not act in a sinful way without that influence? "
That prooves that people need to be taught to do anything. If we are taught by sinners (sinners according to the bible) we become sinners. If we are taught by purer beings, beings not able to sin, we would not sin ourselves.
"No. But I have heard children who have never been around people who curse use the worst words they can imagine. The worst thing they can think of may not be all that bad, but it is evidence of a dirty, sin-sick heart. This is the whole point: we cannot use word we have not learned, but words are only representations of ideas and feelings. The ideas and feelings come from within us--a bad heart."
So you think every human being is sin sick? You are right, words are merely a representation for a feeling or emotion. Where did this child learn to say these words? From someone else. Now what they have to be taught is that it is wrong to say them. THEY HAVE TO BE TAUGHT.
|
|
|
|
Post by JoA on Jun 21, 2005 21:51:23 GMT -5
No, actually, I really can't. How does the inability of beings to lie because they cannot form words or rational thought impact this discussion?
True. But they do not learn everything from other humans. A good deal of their character and behaviour comes from their nature.
Probably true. People are social creatures, and they have strong influence over each other.
This is false. Just because we are capable of learning from other and being influenced by them does NOT mean that this is the only way we can develop behaviour. You have brought no proof.
Every human but Jesus Christ. Isn't that what we're discussing?
Right. But the wrong attitudes came from within the child. That's my point.
Wrong-o! Why would a child say the dirtiest word he knows just for fun? Because there is something fundamentally wrong with his soul. That's why he doesn't have to be taught that something is wrong, or that even good things can be done/said in a bad way. We see it all around us. (That's one of the reasons I'd rather hang with animals...LOL! j/k...this is serious.)
|
|
|
|
Post by Trinity on Jun 21, 2005 22:15:49 GMT -5
Okay, if you want to go open a thread on sin, go for it. Otherwise, let's try to keep this thread on topic for once!
|
|
|
|
Post by Tiana, eh? on Jun 22, 2005 1:32:27 GMT -5
Thanks, Trinity. I am ALL FOR on topicness! If you want to start a topic on lying, go right ahead! For once, I think I'm welcoming the non-Christian's point of view.
As for animals lying... ever seen an animal trick another one into a snare?
Allow me to take a stand on this, just briefly. We are born into sin. The world is full of it-- no one can deny that, unless you really are insane. EVERYONE beyond some really warped people will admit there is evil in this world. When a child is born, do they learn to speak a langauge they've never heard?
No, they'll speak what they hear their parents speak. They'll repeat the words they hear-- curse words because they don't know any different. But at that age, can they tell that their parents lie? Do they know that it's wrong? No, but it's in their nature to follow that example set for them.
Do you have to teach them to disobey you? Do you have to teach your little brother to say "no"? Or do they just know... it seems like that, doesn't it? They're born to defy their babysitter. But you have to spend so much time teaching your kids, your siblings, your pets to obey you.
It's just not a part of their nature. Everyone fights with it, fights with the need to be evil. Anyone can win against that too-- not tell the lie about where they really were, etc. We all do learn from example, because we're born into sin, and there's nothing more we have to see for an example. A child raised by animals might not lie, but that's because their communication would differ. Were they exposed to humanity, they would learn.
And in their animal lifestyle, they would learn the sins of that culture. Even animals, I think, have a culture of a sort. Laws unwritten, so forth.
1) Heaven or hell. The point's been well made-- I believe that if you believe in Jesus, and the forgiveness of sins and ask for that, you'll go to heaven. And if you don't believe, you're in one hot spot...
2) God is love, is forgiveness, is order, is justice. That's what I firmly believe. My God is a God of order. Why else would the Bible contain books full of family trees, if He was not a being of order? And love is also stated too. *shrugs* God is everything good, I guess...
3) The nature of man is to live for themselves, and to gain. To pull themselves forward in life and get what they want by means they choose. And there's always a piece within them that fights that-- and some will accept that consence, and others will not.
4) How do you know that gravity's pulling you down and not up? It's a faith thing. I know I'm right by an inborn faith through rebirth.
5) Then I'll die and nothing will happen. Because if what I say is right, I'll have an eternity. If what I'm saying is wrong, there's nothing more. And then it won't really matter, will it? So, thus, I am right. *grins* Because if I'm not, it won't make any difference, will it?
6) What difference does it make beyond what I just said? Eternity.
|
|
|
|
Post by SilverSergyon13 on Jun 22, 2005 7:57:36 GMT -5
"As for animals lying... ever seen an animal trick another one into a snare?"
That would be considered a form of survival. A human telling a lie is not a form of survival unless our life is somehow on the line. Being deceitful from a human is most likely for enjoyment from that human more than anything else.
(Have to go for today, so I can't type anymore. Ugh, graduation)
|
|
|
|
Post by Jareth on Jun 22, 2005 13:25:18 GMT -5
Adam and Eve didn't have parents, and God is no sinner, they sinned. how do you explain that?
|
|
|
|
Post by Trinity on Jun 22, 2005 13:36:52 GMT -5
Like I said earlier, this discussion needs to be continued in another thread because I know that you can go on and on discussing it (which isn't a bad thing, mind you). Feel free to open a new one! You have my approval...
|
|
CJ
Agent of Gondor
"oooh, what have we here?" "it's a man cub, it is."
Posts: 181
|
Post by CJ on Jun 22, 2005 13:56:59 GMT -5
and mine as well. hee hee. *has no power*
|
|
