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Post by Faust-Dark Lord Reborn on Jun 21, 2005 20:37:40 GMT -5
Did you know Easter and Christmas were originally holidays celebrated by the celts like Hallow's Eve (halloween)?
Yup, Christmas was called Yule and Easter was May Day. Christianity wanted to convert the celts but the celts liked having great holidays. So, in response, the christians gave the celts christmas and easter.
To back up my point:
1) Do you think Jesus was born December 25? No. 2) During Yule the celts burned yule logs, exchanged gifts, and decortated a tree. 3) What do bunnies and eggs have to do with Jesus? Nothing, May Day was about fertility and thats what they represent.
This isn't bashing any christianity, its just an interesting fact that everybody should know. Please discuss.
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Post by SilverSergyon13 on Jun 21, 2005 20:44:57 GMT -5
"3) What do bunnies and eggs have to do with Jesus? Nothing, May Day was about fertility and thats what they represent."
LOLOLOL!!! Ok, I have to laugh at this because I raise both chickens and bunnies and yes, those two things DEFINITELY represent fertility. I started out with two rabbits two months ago. I now have seven. I started out with 9 chickens 5 years ago and I now have over 50. LOLOL! Yes, fertility!
I do agree with what you said though. Most Christian holidays originated from pagan ones.
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Post by Joan Omnipresent on Jun 21, 2005 20:50:34 GMT -5
Yup. Those holidays are not a part of my relgion for the reasons already mentioned. Maybe it's a fun cultural experience. Maybe I exchange gifts. But no way is there religious significance.
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Post by Trinity on Jun 21, 2005 22:21:26 GMT -5
Easter is supposed to be the celebration of Jesus' resurrection. Don't see how it came from pagan beliefs. I don't get into the whole easter bunny/egg thing, though. That is a bit weird, now that I think about it. But that is what the world did to Easter *sigh... And Christmas? Yeah, it is true Jesus may not have been born on Christmas day (I've heard that before). But personally, I enjoy having the opportunity of celebrating the birth of Christ in some way. In my eyes, as long as the holiday is Christ centered and not present/tree/party centered, then why not honor Jesus?
Now, Halloween I am in complete agreement with! Don't celebrate that one... actually, I'm usually in the desert when it comes around.
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Kaiya
Agent of Gondor
"No one is beneath redemption..."
Posts: 185
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Post by Kaiya on Jun 21, 2005 23:22:19 GMT -5
Yeah, those holidays are held on the same day as the old pagan holidays, but I celebrate them as religious holidays because of what they mean to me now, not because of what they once were. Most Christians hear the word pagan and flip out, but it doesn't bother me at all that these holidays were originally pagan holidays. That's not what they are to me. Christmas is a time for me to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ, even if he wasn't born on that day. It's a day to give gifts and be with the ones I love so I can remember that I am loved by God and given the gift of eternal life with him. Easter is when I celebrate Christ's resurrection, and for the 40 days before that I celebrate Lent. It means nothing else to me besides that. Easter is about religion for me and nothing more or less. And yes, I even celebrate Halloween. That's probably my favorite holiday of the year. It's a time to mock evil and be whoever you want to be. On Halloween, everyone's a freak and there's no boundaries and judging. For me, it's not about evil spirits rising to haunt us or demons and Satan and blah blah blah. People are always telling me that I should avoid Halloween and fear it because I leave myself open to evil influence and demons. But if I'm a loyal and honest Christian, I have nothing to fear, not even Satan himself. Satan and demons have no hold over me because God walks with me and makes me strong. So I don't understand the big deal about people hating Halloween. It's so much fun and I've never once had anything horrible happen on it or after it. If anything, Halloween's been good for me and brought me closer to my old friends and brought new people into my life.
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Post by Master Warious on Jun 22, 2005 6:43:13 GMT -5
THe REASON behind Easter and Christmas falling on the old pagan holidays was because when the Roman Catholic Church came to the Celtic area they didn't want a zillion more problems. They did this to make Christianity more acceptable to the Celts. so instead of destroying their culture (like some invaders which got thrashed because of try to do so) they attempted to change it in a more subtle way.
You should research before critisizing.
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Post by SilverSergyon13 on Jun 22, 2005 8:06:28 GMT -5
I LOVE Halloween. It is my most favoritist holiday during the whole year!! WoOt! I love decorating and dressing up, and that all around spooky feeling. I suppose this love may come from my puerto rican background though. THey do a ton for that "Day of the Dead" and my grandparents, mom, and dad have always been really into halloween. I don't think I could live without that holiday!
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Post by Faust-Dark Lord Reborn on Jun 22, 2005 9:00:07 GMT -5
Excuse me? Isn't that what I pretty much said? *rolls eyes* Why on earth do we decorate a tree!? Why do we have bunnies on Easter!? Its because it was ORIGINALLY a celtic holiday! Its the fact that the church could've had Christmas or Easter any other day of the year (actually spring would be better for Christmas cuz it was lambing season durning Christ's birth), but they didn't!
((And if anybody thinks that the church was moving in not to convert the people of England/ Scotland/ etc, then you gotta do some reading. They were, they just didn't want their homes burned when the missionairies came. So they made their religion more attractive.))
The church coulda said "We're just going to church that day! There will be no representation of that day other than Christ!" but they did they used the same day, they did used the same symbols, they just changed the meaning and the name (and some rituals that the celts had).
The church changed the holidays to christian meanings, but didn't bother changing the day or symbols.
I wasn't critisizing (don't any of you think I'm a pagan! Understand?), I was just stating somthing.
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Post by Faust-Dark Lord Reborn on Jun 22, 2005 9:12:21 GMT -5
And yes, I really love Halloween. I like getting together with friends and dressing up, having a party, and stuffing our faces with food. I don't go out (I'm way too old) but I love the idea.
I love pumpkin carving, I love the sweets, I love the creepy/spooky feeling of that day. It isn't an evil holiday in origin, look up the origin of Halloween some time, cuz I'm not explaining it and getting attacked.
My personal favorite halloween was when we had extremely intricate costumes like a actual kimono, a ninja, Dr. Evil from Austin Powers. It was great.
But now we have to stay on topic, just a reminder. We don't want Miss. Admin Leader to lock us in her sights and blast us with her X wing. hehehe.
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Post by Joan Omnipresent on Jun 22, 2005 9:48:55 GMT -5
The way a lot of people (and I'm sure you folks) celebrate Halloween is quite innocent. However, all the deal with death and darkness is too much. As a Christian, I don't want to be associated with the darker side of the celebrating, so I steer clear of the whole thing. Nothing wrong with getting candy and dressing up, though: some of my friends did when they were younger...
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Post by Jareth on Jun 22, 2005 13:19:56 GMT -5
it's not that we think that Jesus was born on the 25th, or died on Good Friday, Christmas is in remembranceor Jesus, Easter is in remembrance of His death and ressurection. it's symbolic. we don't know when Jesus was born or when He died... hence, we have Easter and Christmas.
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Post by Dûncariel is Dead. on Jun 22, 2005 13:37:32 GMT -5
"3) What do bunnies and eggs have to do with Jesus? Nothing, May Day was about fertility and thats what they represent." Actually, they do have stuff to do with it. Please research a little better before making assumptions about something you don't even believe. Not saying you're bashing it, but do word your observations a little more carefully, next time. That said, Easter is celebrated during Spring for a reason. And it's not because that was when May Day was celebrated, though that's a nice idea. Spring is the season of new life, which is what we celebrate at Easter. Easter is the celebration of the resurrection of Christ, and the New Life that we gain through his sacrifice. Eggs also represent that new life, and are viewed by some as representing the trilogy -- egg white, yolk, shell, Father, Son, Holy Spirit (one entity). Ummm, need I say 'duh'? Sure, at Christmas we celebrate Christ's birth. But no one knows the exact day, and, since the Jewish calendar is much different that the American/European calendar, the Old Church chose a day to celebrate it on. No reason to go bashing their decision. Decorating a tree really has nothing to do with the Christian holiday. It's called tradition. Honestly, jump on everything. Do Christians run around saying, "You know, when you put up that tree, it has to mean this." Uh, no. What Warious said about dates is the truth. They were placing the new holidays on dates that were familiar to the people. That way, it was easier for people to understand, if it was associated with something already familiar. I don't necessarily agree with Halloween in its entirety. Sure, I think dressing up and stealing people's candy is amusing, but there's a lot of nasty stuff that goes along with the holiday. It started out as "All Saints Day", where people would put a Jack 'O Lantern on their doorstep to ward off the evil spirits. Many Satanic rituals take place on All Hallows Eve, involving human sacrifice and a lot of death and nastiness. Believe it or not, it happens.
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CJ
Agent of Gondor
"oooh, what have we here?" "it's a man cub, it is."
Posts: 181
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Post by CJ on Jun 22, 2005 13:55:35 GMT -5
my mom always makes these cookies on Easter, when you take them out of the oven, they're empty! and we seal the oven with tape. *coughs just somethin' we do every Easter...
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Post by SilverSergyon13 on Jun 22, 2005 14:11:41 GMT -5
"I love the creepy/spooky feeling of that day."
Exactly! I love that!
In Puerto Rico, Day of the Dead (which is equivalent to our Halloween) is a day to celebrate death. It is a death to remember our dead and to worship them. Yes, it originated from pagan rituals back in the day, but whats wrong with that?
Actually, Halloween was never meant for much of the satanic stuff that goes on today. I suppose the creepy feeling we get on Halloween is what brought about those rituals on that day, however, Halloween SHOULD be just a day to reflect upon our past ancestors and to have fun.
I am not going trick or treating this year, but I think I am a having a big party in my basement. I have a few friends into ghosts and stuff, so I suppose we will stay up watching scary/horror movies and then tell ghost stories. Oooo, I love a good ghost story.
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Post by SilverSergyon13 on Jun 22, 2005 14:13:11 GMT -5
"egg white, yolk, shell, Father, Son, Holy Spirit (one entity). "
I don't really get how that applies. There are so many more parts of the egg than just that. The people who created the holiday should've known that. That must be a newer belief I guess.
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Post by Jareth on Jun 22, 2005 14:22:30 GMT -5
it's the basic parts, the parts you can see.
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Post by Dun on Jun 22, 2005 14:36:50 GMT -5
I was just giving an example, Silver. Not everyone in the world knows that there are more parts to an egg. I'm taking AP Bio, so I know what you mean -- it's all far more complex than simply shell, yolk, and white.
Umm, FYI, no microscopes. They couldn't have known that.
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Post by Faust-Dark Lord Reborn on Jun 22, 2005 15:28:41 GMT -5
I've never heard of the egg thing either. Was that intentended to be during the first Easter or was it made up after the first Easter to explain why eggs were so important? I've also gotta say I'm sorry if I've offended anybody here. Now that thats done let me say this too: I'm just saying that in originality Christmas and Easter were pagan holidays (going by different names), not anymore. The church withdrew the pagan gods and made it a christian context. I'm not saying that celebrating Christmas inadvertantly worships a god of a different religion. I'm saying that the church found it convinient to have those holidays on those specific days and keeping the traditions of the Saxons (they also found it convenient not having their houses burnt to the ground). What don't I beleive? I'm a christian and knowlegable of other relgions (Wiccan and Celtic included). And finally: Actually "All Saints Day" wasn't Halloween. Hallow's Eve is Oct. 31st and All Saint's is Nov.1st. And Jack-o-lanterns (and Jill-o-lanterns for the female carvings) were not of Christian origin either, once again they were pagan in origin. Don't assume either Dun ;D
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Post by Dûncariel is Dead. on Jun 22, 2005 17:41:33 GMT -5
Pbbbth. That's not what I meant. *smacks head* Bad wording here, as well. They're related. I need sleep. Bad combination. I never once stated that Jack O Lanterns were Christian... Halloween has never even been changed to be a quote-unquote Christian holiday. Some churches use it as an outreach event, but that's as far as it goes. Where have you heard that Halloween was Christian?
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Post by Faust-Dark Lord Reborn on Jun 22, 2005 17:49:31 GMT -5
It started out as "All Saints Day", where people would put a Jack 'O Lantern on their doorstep to ward off the evil spirits. Many Satanic rituals take place on All Hallows Eve, involving human sacrifice and a lot of death and nastiness. Believe it or not, it happens. I beleve thats what you said, maybe it was just bad wording
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