Gay Marriage Discussion

[Faust-Dark Lord Reborn]

This is a thread on gay marriage. Definitely no bashing, flaming, or the like. This is to be a thoughtful and meaningful discussion, not a flame war.

State your views, defend them if you want, but don't get too out of hand. This thread is going to be watched very closely by our admins to make sure it stays clean.

Now with that said, please discuss.

[Joan Omnipresent]

I'm sorry but...is this an appropriate topic? No need to invite trouble, is there?

[Trinity]

Hmm... I'm VERY hesitant on approving this topic just because I can SEE trouble being a possibility in the future. I mean, there are two sides to the coin: those who approve and those who don't.

Ok, the thing we need to ask ourselves is this: can we actually DISCUSS this topic in a friendly, non-flaming manner, or is it just going to be another arguement? Post on here and let me know what you all think about this, because on one side you should be able to discuss this, but on the other I can see it becoming a full blown arguement and I REALLY don't want that happening again. So, let me know, and I'll PM Tiana about it to get the final word.

I don't like asking you guys to do this, but please don't begin discussing too much before the thread is approved. This is not to stomp down any discussions or say you can't talk about certain things. It's to be sure that no one is going to be hurt or offended in the future, because that isn't right. And the only reason I'm asking you to do this is because the topic is such a sensitive issue.

THANK YOU ALL!!! Over and out...

[Faust-Dark Lord Reborn]

*nods* Thats all understandable. And you can PM Eowyn to get the okay. Anyway, yes, I wanted to gauge people's reactions to this (note that I didn't actually state my opinions in the first post?).

[Tiana, eh?]

I approved it under the grounds of trial by fire... it's as simple as that. Discuss nicely, and if I get PMed about it being out of control, or see that it is myself, it goes. If anyone has a problem with this thread, I ask that it be PMed to myself or Jandalf if we don't catch it first bat.

The topic is very sensitive, and I don't want to see anyone quoting more than a brief sentence of any one post at a time, as to avoid feelings being crushed. This being an edgy topic, I want extra care taken to avoid stomping on people who's opinions may vary.

Again, for the record, I hold nothing against gay people. They're human too, and I try to be accepting of most beliefs. I find it wrong, but I'm not going to judge someone because they're homosexual. It's the same as judging someone for being black.

[Jandalf on Toast]

Hrrrrmmmm...yes. Having it up here isn't necessarily a bad thing, so long as it stays nice.

I was actually talking about the subject with a friend of mine at work, and we compared notes. She told me that while she didn't believe in it herself, she had a number of friends who were gay, and that she was accepting of the idea. We both agreed that no matter anyone's opinion on the topic, the rejection and/or bashing of homosexuals is completely unacceptable. Like Tiana said, they are every bit as human as we are, and they should be given the same unconditional love as anyone else. I believe the same for thieves, for example: that they have committed a sin according to the standards set by the Bible, and redemption or rehabilitation is a goal to be set. Everyone has sinned, gays and straights alike, and we're all in the same box together. Neither group is any better or worse than the other for it.

There's also the idea that's been floating around about how some people are born gay. I've heard various explanations for it, but I still disagree with it. A lot of the time, it derives from a child lacking a good balance of parental influences, or not understanding the father and mother roles.

[Faust-Dark Lord Reborn]

Eh, I think that it's fine. But thats just me.

I think that if 2 people love eachother thats great, there isn't enough of that in the world. Love is beautiful, in any form.

I think lots of people choose to be gay, but I also think lots are 'born gay'. When I say born gay I mean that they don't like the opposite sex no matter how much they try, they've always liked the same sex since they could remember. That being said, we can't prove anyone's 'born gay', there hasn't been any proof that there is a gene out there that causes people to be gay.

Marriage is recognised by the state and country and can be recognised by religion. Religions aren't being forced to approve gay marriage (if they were I'd have a problem). If they get married in the eyes of the state thats fine with me. If they get a blessing from their religion thats even better, but priests aren't being forced to perform gay marriages.

[Tiana, eh?]

It's like our pastor said. He refuses to preform gay marrages because they go against his beliefs. But he's not going to walk out there and shun someone gay, or kick them out of our church just because of that. We're open to anything, pretty well, in a congragation. I don't blink to see full traditional garbed Mennonites, a policeman in uniform, and a docter in the same row. I doubt it'd take me long to adjust to two guys who consider themselves a couple being around either.

I think it's gross, and it's something I wouldn't do. But it's as simple as I don't care. I've sinned. I've lied, cheated, snagged candies from my siblings when they weren't looking, killed flies... I've used God's name in vain, disobeyed my parents. I've gotten mad enough to regret it. I've been tempted from everything to sexual sins to suicide to wondering what would happen if I killed someone... and yes, I've contemplated exactly how gay people can do it.

And probably nearly everyone else has had similar thoughts. They've been hit with the thoughts "well, it shouldn't hurt if I go and read these NC 17 rated fanfics for extremely disgusting sexual content" and then blink. "Where in Kessel did that come from?!" But my point with that is simple. We've all sinned, and their sins are no greater because they're homosexual.

They're no different than liars, people who frequent sites that shouldn't even exist, thieves, hackers... and neither are we.

I don't believe you can be born gay, however. That's a notion that seems foolish, and just a way to attempt to throw it as us "Religious people" that we can't do a blasted thing about it. Love is chemically caused when a certain balance of chemicals hits a certain part of your mind. But people are gay simply because they grew up confused on the parent relationship, or were pressured by their friends into seeing the other gender in a distorted way... there's a lot of things that could make up for reasons. And until someone scientifically proves there's a gay gene (still thinks of gay as happy, sorry), I won't accept that explanation. There may be guys who aren't attracted to girls, no matter how hard they try staring at their chests. Have they ever considered trying to get to know girls, rather than just think about what they'd be like in bed?

And perhaps some of them actually do pursue girls with proper intentions. And still aren't attracted to them. It doesn't mean they're gay. It could very well just mean they never met the right girl, and it could mean that they'll be fine off single. And it could mean they're going to fall in love with a guy. (shrugs) It's against God's princables, but I'm not going to shun someone for that choice.

I'd sooner shun some straight guy/girl believers I know in town who bother me far more than anyone gay could, I think. Now, some gay people just creep me out (the guy who walks around town wearing pink skirts and long nails, which bother me on GIRLS). But people who don't try to flaunt it, and rub it in your nose...

Well, to be honest, I think they'd probably make better friends than some of the straight people I've met. (shudders) They're the reason I walk around wearing a robe that covers me from neck to feet, normally...

[Faust-Dark Lord Reborn]

Eh, I understand what you mean. I agree with alot of what you said too, maybe not all, but lots.

I also gotta say that we have to take a look at it from the government's point of view. I mean, they can't hold a vote to see if it should be legal, and equality should be a priority.

And then you have to realize that not everyone is christian (this is a christian thread, but hey, it has to be said). There are some religions, not a lot, but a few that don't think gay relationships are morally wrong.

I think that if you're attracted to the opposite gender, or the same gender, or yes, both, then following your heart is important. If you're gay don't go against you're heart and date a woman (if your a guy) that you're not attracted too just because she's a woman and thats 'normal'. You'll only end up hurting yourself and her.

I hope that made sense... eh. I hope it did.

[Tiana, eh?]

Yes, that made sense. And yes, I'm aware there are religions that don't go against gay marriages. However, when I refer to religion in this board, I'm probably referring to either Christianity or Catholicism. I know it's a general term, yes... but if I'm referring to another religion, I'll state it by name so people don't get confused.

But yes, it made sense what you said, relatively. I understand that if you're a gay guy and you dated a girl, you'd just end up hurting her... but that doesn't mean someone not attracted to the opposite gender has to date at all. People in this day and age tend to focus too much on dating and love and such, in my opinion. They immediately think if you're not attracted to the opposite gender, you're gay. I've been accused of being gay before, just because for a long time I held no real appreciation for the idea of dating. So now I shriek about Anakin being hot, and that works. (rolls eyes) But people don't HAVE to date to have fun... life isn't just about kissing up.

I'm aware that not everyone is Christian, and I can't change that. (shrugs) I'm not trying to. I'm simply stating my viewpoint from a relatively accepting Christian's perspective.

[Faust-Dark Lord Reborn]

I understand what you mean on the topic of 'if you don't date you're gay' thing. Trust me, I've been called gay lots in high school. What I was talking about above was when you know you like the same gender, not when you are indifferent to dating or aren't drooling over the opposite gender. *rereads* I think that makes more sense.

Lemme expand on my last post. I just think that you shouldn't fool yourself if you know you're gay. If you know you are then don't date the opposite gender, like I said, that'll only lead to heartbreak. I also think that you shouldn't punish yourself if you know your gay, I know that happens too.

[Jandalf on Toast]

I just think that you shouldn't fool yourself if you know you're gay. If you know you are then don't date the opposite gender, like I said, that'll only lead to heartbreak. I also think that you shouldn't punish yourself if you know your gay, I know that happens too.

Yes, complete agreement! Dating the opposite gender, in such a case, would only result in pain for both people. And punishing yourself isn't necessary whatsoever. I think what is needed is simply the recognition itself.

I can also agree with what's been said: there are a lot of homosexuals who are wonderful people. Many of them, I think, find it easier than a lot of straights to be honest with themselves, to preserve and accept who they are as a person. While I don't agree with the means, that sort of attitude toward themselves is to be admired. It gives a sort of in-and-out confidence to one's self that's very badly needed for the majority of the population, I think.

[Joan Omnipresent]

C.S. Lewis had some interesting and helpful things to say on this issue. You might want to look it up, if you're interested...

[Tiana, eh?]

There was a misinterpetation PMed to me about my last post, someone thought I might've been saying that I didn't want to see anyone come to Christ by saying I wasn't trying to change the non-Christians on this site. I appologize for that. That wasn't at all what I was trying to say. I was merely trying to say I didn't wish to push any of the non-Christians into my beliefs, not that I didn't want to see them ever believe the same way as I do.

My applogies to both groups if any other misinterpetations came from that. I love ye all, and I just don't want to see any pain on either end from me taking one side too hard, or whatnot.

And yes, Fausty, 't makes a lot more sense... yes, if you know you're attracted to the same gender, you shouldn't try dating someone the opposite gender. However, I also believe that a gay person should never try to push themselves at someone who's clearly indicated that they're attracted to the opposite gender, and wouldn't want to get into a gay relationship.

(grimaces) Just because I'm not exactly attracted to the idea of dating any local guys doesn't mean I'm gay... stupid local people. (mutters) I'm quite attracted to guys as a girl. I just hate all the local guys. Because they have NO RESPECT FOR THE FEMALE GENDER! GAH! They're as bad as Jedi.net guys... [/rant]

One of the google adds is "Stay gay in Kuaui". It's a tour in some tropical island... (snickers) Beaches! Heh... so odd...

[Faust-Dark Lord Reborn]

Eh, too lazy

But seriously, I <3 you Jandalf! Your comment made me smile, I loved it.

Hey look, we've kept this thread clean! I'm so proud of us all!

[Master Warious]

Okay, now I want to say something.
1) I do not have a problem with Homosexual people. I have some friends who are such.
2) I do not approve of the actual ACT of homosexuality. It's against the laws of nature. Maybe not human Nature but the natural world. Being an animal I prefer Natural Law to Human Nature. Not saying I'm perfect. Just sayin'.
3) I have had advances made towards me by the same gender after I have told them 'I don't swing that way'.
And not only have they done that once, they have done that twice even after asking if I had changed my mind (which I didn't).
I loved this person very much in a non-sexual way and did not send out 'signals'. But when this person did that it hurt me severely. Both emotionally and mentally. (just ask Tiana, I ranted to her often enough )
I still love this person because she was my first true friend (untill now but that is a completely different story) but I wanted to tell you guys this so there would be a perspective from the other side on the 'dating/relationship' issue.

There...I think that was civil enough...perhaps a bit emotional on my part but...

[Faust-Dark Lord Reborn]

I understand all but your second point, Eternal Bother (by the way, I love your sig!). Could I expand on that?

[/waits]

[Tiana, eh?]

Aye, and your rants didn't bother me at all, sis... because I understand. Really. And I think I get that second point, Faust... homosexuality goes against natural laws. It doesn't fit. I won't expand on what I mean, because it's rated higher than I prefer on this site. -_-

And, as usual, Jandalf's being her "I love everyone" side of things. She really seems to lack the ablity to post contraversial posts... snrk. _eth

[Faust-Dark Lord Reborn]

But thats why we loves her! I on the other hand am controversy in human form!

Anyway. I read a news article a while ago. A gay couple (women) were walking along the street at dusk and were beaten nearly to death cuz they were holding hands and kissed once. A gang saw them and crossed the road, then proceeded to beat them. This is the problem.

[Joan Omnipresent]

It's Eowyn's birthday. Eat cake.