|
Ev3l
Dec 28, 2005 12:31:19 GMT -5
Post by Ali Blue on Dec 28, 2005 12:31:19 GMT -5
There are too many loop holes with evil. The simple fact of saying "Evil is the absence of God" is what I believe to be a simplifier. Who wants to think about it when they can just believe that....but does it really mean anything? If someone told me that I would reply with "Then anyone who is not Christian is evil, every animal who does not believe in God is evil, Every action done while one is not thinking of god is evil, and every thought that does not have some relic of God in it is evil." All these things fit in with the saying "Evil is the absence of God", but are all of them correct? I would be one to answer no. there are no loopholes in evil. It's Satan's deception that makes it appear that way. Everyone in the world is evil. it's our nature, it has been since the beginning, we like being selfish. just because someone has good moral values, they are still evil. Most people know what they are doing is wrong, although, I believe God makes an exception for the Mentally ill. But, God is God and we have no way of ever thoroughly understanding Him and His ways. Thankfully, the Holy Spirit moves us in our heart to realize what evil we are doing is wrong, and, in some cases, we repent. And God rescues us from our sins. and we are clean. Once we have repented, in God's eyes, it is as though the sins never existed, because we received His son, Jesus. But, as we are humans, we repeat evil again, and, in consequence, the process happens again. As for animals, they don't have souls, therefore they cannot be evil. Unless, they are possessed by a demon or even Satan himself. Although, the soul is not really theirs. Animals don't go to Heaven or Hell, because they have no way of choosing between salvation or sin.
|
|
|
Ev3l
Dec 28, 2005 17:06:59 GMT -5
Post by SilverSergyon13 on Dec 28, 2005 17:06:59 GMT -5
Perhaps that is their salvation.
The reason I turned away from my church was due to the tendency of looking down upon animals that most of the people there had. My CCD instructor told us one day that animals have no soul, go nowhere after life, and have no sense of thought, problem solving, or moral right and wrong. I KNOW this isn't true. I've been around animals all my life. I've observed every action, every miniscule detail of their being. I have inseparable relationships with some of my animals, closer relationships than I would ever, could ever, have with any human on the face of this planet. What does one think causes the feeling of love in an animal? What causes the feeling of sadness, of pain, of grief, of sympathy? All these feelings and emotions considered so human? Animals have them too, but it's something humans don't often take into consideration, because many of them are too busy worrying about their own wellbeing, their own religions, beliefs, and their own authority over all other living creatures that do not fill the category of human.
Animals have language, complex social structures, rules, laws...they have voices, but people don't listen. No, they can't speak english, but they speak to us in other ways. Subtle ways, but anyone who cares to listen would notice the head tilt of a dog, the wink of a cat, the dance of a rooster. But why listen to animals? They are lower than us...or so the mass population of earth tends to believe.
I really don't mean to pull this thread so off topic, but the meer implication that animals are lower than humans really really bugs me. Even if I can't change the view of someone else, I think people need to listen and watch nature and it's animals before saying anything about it. I'm sure spending a couple hours alone with an animal would change many minds, but I also realize not everyone has that oppertunity.
Humans are animals, in every way, shape, and form. Why would any god create only one species out of hundreds, thousands, and possibly even millions of others, that could think and have the power to believe in himself/herself as a god?
Animals know more than us. They are highly intuned with everything around them. They remember things and I believe if anyone knows the concrete existence of a god, it would be the animals. Maybe they don't souls, but that isn't at all a necessary thing is it? According to legend, the devil needs a a soul to command. Perhaps then there is absolutely no evil in animals what so ever. They cannot be touched by a devil of any sorts without a soul. However, no one truly knows what a soul is. You can't see it, you don't even know its there, so how in the world can anyone say what has one and what doesn't?
Back on topic, however, I would like to continue the animal discussion perhaps in a different thread.
If everything is evil, why have a word for it? It just doesn't make sense. Is one "good" force, enough to create an entire slew of words and definitions for it? Perhaps everything is evil in a Christian religious point of view, but what about in an every day, non religious view?
|
|
|
Ev3l
Dec 30, 2005 0:35:32 GMT -5
Post by Ali Blue on Dec 30, 2005 0:35:32 GMT -5
Because. we need a way to distinguish good from evil. we need to know what is right and good, so we can at least try to do better. There is no repentance if you truly don't want to change what you did. If there was no choice, if there was no distinction between good and evil, there would be no purpose to God's gift of free will. We have the choice, and there has to be a choice. In a non-religious point of view, good is all in your opinion. if there was no God someone could steal your wallet, and of course, you would say (apart from trying to get your wallet back) "That's wrong, it's not right!" and they could very well ask, "Who says?" God laid out the laws, nobody would know what was good and evil. They would have no one to tell them.
|
|
|
Ev3l
Dec 30, 2005 20:04:58 GMT -5
Post by Jandalf on Toast on Dec 30, 2005 20:04:58 GMT -5
I suppose the whole issue with the difference between good and evil, the reality of truth, and even where animals fall in God's kingdom can all be tossed into one package... But anyway. I'll just tackle the relevant bits to this thread at the moment.
I think animals have an incredible gift that humans don't. Even if their intellect can't match up (though they often make smarter decisions than a lot of humans would), and even though humans have been given dominion over the rest of the creation here by God, I think God lives in them in a way that we can hardly match while we're here on Earth. The fall in Eden affected animals as well, but not to the same extent as man. I'm pretty well convinced that animals have that direct link to God in their selflessness. They have the nature of survival, certainly, and I don't think I could say they're egoless, but there seems to be this connection that's completely open. They wouldn't brag about it if they were given a voice we could understand, nor do they need to ponder it. They just have the innate knowledge, or instinct rather, that it's there, and they go about their lives like that, short as their years are. I don't believe they have an afterlife; I've been under the impression that creation has a sort of general ranking system. Angels are higher than we are, having been made in perfection and remaining that way (to the exclusion of those who are and will always be under Satan, of course). Then we follow, having been given dominion of creation, and then animals are next.
I'm not entirely sure, but I'm thinking evil has more of an application to humans (and angels, besides) than animals when it comes to creation, on account of Lucifer's fall in heaven and Adam and Eve's on earth. Humans have the possibility for redemption, so naturally Satan would want to cloud the issue. It's his self-appointed job, after all.
I'm not going to say your argument makes no sense, Silver. It makes a lot of sense, in fact, and I would no doubt have the exact same stance on things if I wasn't convinced that there must be an absolute that's beyond any human mind. I think that's why it's so easy to fall into confusion over the issue, something I've struggled with a lot, and emerge with an answer that, while standing to sense, may not be the right one. I've probably got numerous flaws in my own arguments according to the ways of God. All I can see to for certain is to trust in what he does say clearly and explicitly, and speculate a bit from there. Theology...can be such a tangle...
|
|
|
Ev3l
Dec 30, 2005 20:57:09 GMT -5
Post by Ali Blue on Dec 30, 2005 20:57:09 GMT -5
yeah.. I agree with you Jandalf. And might I add, though discussing God and the Bible and theology might help us sort things out a little bit better in our minds, we can only rely on the Bible to help us understand more about God. We can never truly understand God, but it helps to try, and in the process, we grow closer to Him.
|
|
|
Ev3l
Dec 31, 2005 12:27:15 GMT -5
Post by Joan Omnipresent on Dec 31, 2005 12:27:15 GMT -5
Evil is not the absence of good, or the abscence of God. Rather, it is twisting good things and using them in ways and for reasons that are not right. (right being defined by God) Essentially, it is rebellion against God and against nature. Therefore, it is impossible for any evil to exist unless good also exists, although good--and God--can and will exist apart from evil.
Regarding animals...we need a new topic for that.
|
|
|
Ev3l
Dec 31, 2005 16:26:56 GMT -5
Post by Ali Blue on Dec 31, 2005 16:26:56 GMT -5
Well spoken, Master. Goodness, there are so many different perspectives you can have on evil.
|
|
|
Ev3l
Jan 1, 2006 15:26:33 GMT -5
Post by SilverSergyon13 on Jan 1, 2006 15:26:33 GMT -5
...And every single one is true to the one it's believed by.
|
|
|
Ev3l
Jan 1, 2006 19:15:16 GMT -5
Post by Joan Omnipresent on Jan 1, 2006 19:15:16 GMT -5
Off-topic. Do you want own thread, Silv?
<<Actually, you're in the wrong board to discuss moral relativism, but I think you'd be fine to start a thread here if you like.>>
|
|
|
Ev3l
Jan 2, 2006 18:54:48 GMT -5
Post by SilverSergyon13 on Jan 2, 2006 18:54:48 GMT -5
Just making a statement. I believe we already have a thread to discuss that.
|
|
|
Ev3l
Jan 2, 2006 19:03:34 GMT -5
Post by Ali Blue on Jan 2, 2006 19:03:34 GMT -5
we do?
|
|
|
Ev3l
Jan 2, 2006 19:11:27 GMT -5
Post by SilverSergyon13 on Jan 2, 2006 19:11:27 GMT -5
I think so. Or at least one that I remember. Something about perception, I'll have to go search it out.
|
|
|
Ev3l
Jan 2, 2006 22:39:07 GMT -5
Post by Joan Omnipresent on Jan 2, 2006 22:39:07 GMT -5
I'm sorry...I know you were just making one comment, but when that comment takes up your entire post then you should consider looking up the proper thread.
Humbly, ~Joan~
|
|
WHITE LIFE
Sithly Elf
Preach Christ Crucified. Corinthians 1:23
Posts: 34
|
Ev3l
Mar 3, 2007 6:02:46 GMT -5
Post by WHITE LIFE on Mar 3, 2007 6:02:46 GMT -5
Cy's original question of "What is the definition of evil?" can be answered in many different ways as we have seen in the replies so far. I would add the following...
One might look upon Christ Crucified as being "evil". And so it is. God can sometimes seem to be absent and incapable of stopping evil. But in the most mysterious way God the Father has revealed his almighty power in the voluntary humiliation and Resurrection of his Son, by which he conquered evil. Christ crucified is thus "the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men." It is in Christ's Resurrection and exaltation that the Father has shown forth "the immeasurable greatness of his power in us who believe".
So to simply define evil, one could say: Evil is a mystery in which God allows in order to bring about a greater good.
|
|