Rules, or, posting with love

[Tiana, eh?]

After a few too many incidences, I am forced to make yet another seperate rules thread for a seperate forum area.

MIDDLE-EARTH: INSANITY IS NOT A RELIGION FORUM. Even though the majority of members happen to be Christian, we are not a Christian forum. We are simply a Christian-run forum. For that, we apply one rule to everything.

In everything, do it in love. Not mushy hearts and flowers sort of love. But a love implying a respect for others opinions, and a sibling love.

It nearly reduces me to tears to see our so-called Christian members tearing those who don't believe apart. It's become a war zone, and for that, I post a couple of simple rules.

1) In dealing with athiests and people who don't believe in a God, do not try to force them to believe in God. It will not help anything.

2) In dealing with people of foreign religions, remember that they are permitted to believe that way (even if you don't think it's right), and it is not your right to "make them see the light". It is our right to post our opinion, to pray for them, and to respectfully reply to their posts.

3) And, the most recent, in dealing between Catholics and Protestants (whom I shall call Christians for the sake of spelling, even though most Catholics may consider themselves Christian...)

MEI IS ALSO NOT A REINACTMENT OF THE WARS. Due to Roman Catholic rule, many Protestants were tortured to death. MEI is not to re-enact that, thank you. Religion "this is right, you're wrong!" is the stuff of wars, not the stuff of a forum. We accept everyone, and things are getting out of hand.

Simply? (the result on the Catholic thread from Jandalf and I chatting about it)

Tiana: I think I'm going to post "This is the stuff of wars. I know we all might want to hang each other for being Catholic or Protestant, but that was in the past. This is MEI, and we're not going to murder each other about it. Please take a breath, calm down, and be careful before you're trying to force people to change faiths rather than convince them through love"

Jandalf: In fact, shifting the focus entirely away from even convincing might be a good idea. Sticking to "this is what I believe and why. How have you come to see it?" might have to be how things stay.

Jandalf: Because, really...debates aren't revivals or evangelistic conversions, much as that might sound like a nice thing. We've got to respect each others' decisions, and if what you believe in yourself is really such a good and true thing, then maybe someone else will think about it just by reading what you have to say. But it has to be on their initiative. No conversion, only comparing.

Jandalf: I might also feel inclined to encourage people to say "I believe this is true" instead of "This is the firm rigid truth", even though it may well be. Because humans make mistakes.

Tiana: Because, even if it IS the firm rigid truth, you can't force someone to believe it is that truth. It has to be of their own accord. Quoting people's things and saying they're wrong is getting too close to flaming. It's one thing to say "The Christians remove part of the Bible", it's another to say "Since the Christians removed part of the Bible, they're wrong, and they're going to HELL!!! AHAHAHA!!" (no one said that, fortunately). It's the same as my saying "Even if you believe Jesus died for you, you're going to hell because you believe that Mary's holy and that there's purgatory". I can say "I believe that Jesus died for my sins" without flaming. Saying "You're wrong because you believe this" is flaming.

Jandalf: Yup. There shouldn't be any of that. The debates should be centralised around comparisons based on curiosity. Loving curiosity, I might add. Just because someone believes something different from you does not make them any less human than you are, or any less loved by God.

Any posts trying to force someone to believe a certain way, flaming another religion, or saying "this is the firm rigid truth, and since it is, I'm going to act stuck up and like a pig and mock you" will be edited or deleted. Flaming to an extent will gain a temporary banning.

MAKE YOUR POSTS FROM A LOVING HEART AND DEMONSTRATE THE PATIENCE AND LOVING NATURE OF YOUR RELIGION INSTEAD OF TRYING TO HAMMER IT INTO SOMEONE. YOU WILL GAIN FAR MORE FROM DOING THIS, INCLUDING FRIENDS.

This post is not directed to anyone in particular, simply a few incidences which have merited admin intervension.

The admins are Christians, yes. We also hold no bias. Christian and athiest alike will be banned if religious warring continues, and this board will be locked and deleted.

Please don't make me remove the privilege of discussing religion from this site. Simply keep it to discussing, rather than quoting half of someone's post in your own and pointing out exactly where they went wrong.

Please keep from saying "You're wrong. My religion is the only way. You have to convert or you will burn".

No one wins any hearts by doing that.

Thank you, your loving admins.

[Joan Omnipresent]

Saying "You're wrong because you believe this" is flaming.

As a member of this forum, I will abide by the rules. I see your point, and I respect it.
However, simply by disagreeing with someone, you imply that the person is wrong. Thus, there is no possible way to have a debate of any kind without saying that your opponent is wrong. There is a kind and respectful way to say it, but when we are discussing what we believe to be Truth there is never the option of accepting another's views.
So, no matter what the rules are, if debates are allowed in this forum there will always, ALWAYS be people stating, "You are wrong in your beliefs, and wrong because of your beliefs."

I will attempt to avoid debate in order to abide by these rules that essentially ban disagreement.

[Tiana, eh?]

There is a difference between debate and flaming. I am well aware of this difference. Most of our threads are discussion threads, not debate threads.

Saying "you are wrong because you believe this and I am going to therefore shove it in your face" is flaming. Saying "I don't believe that you're correct, this is what I believe" is debating.

Here's my example post which really got me mad. (no offence to the guilty party)

I believe the Catholic Church is the only Church that professes all it does. And outside the Church there is no salvation. you can take it or leave it

That type of post is what I'm saying I'm not allowing. It was made without knowledge or consideration to those outside the Roman Catholic church; it was made without giving someone a chance to debate.

I'll take another forum for an example. The DioM forum. Lovely Christian-ran place, but the main admin (Brian Davis, author of the Dragons in our Midst series) has a tendacy to quote almost the entirity of someone's post when replying in debate. Yes, it indicates what he's replying to, but it also makes that person feel very on the spot and very wrong. I grew uncomfortable debating much on that forum due to that challenging atmosphere (though yes, I still do it), and don't want to see that on my forum. I've done it myself, yes.

On the Gaia forum, those who profess to be Christians also immediately jump on those who aren't Christians, yelling "you're wrong!" at them. It doesn't win hearts, it hardens them.

If I accuse someone of flaming, and others believe it was debating, go ahead. Challenge me. I'll accept being challenged. This IS a democracy.

I simply want to see more loving posts made.

[Ali Blue]

*duly noted*
Might I add something? We cannot change someone's mind for them. It's their choice. We, as Christians, don't do anything. It is the Holy Spirit working through us. We present what the Bible says and that is our job. A person can accept it or they cannot, don't think that there's anything you can do to sway them, because it's not us. It's God. And that's what we need to remember.