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Post by Jandalf on Toast on Oct 31, 2004 21:59:47 GMT -5
An interesting little passage I came across the other day. It's actually a pretty good argument to use when you're debating truth with someone. I found it interesting to mull over, at any rate.
This is an actual conversation between two famous Greeks: Protagoras and Socrates.
PROTAGORAS: Truth is relative. It is only a matter of opinion.
SOCRATES: You mean that truth is mere subjective opinion?
PROTAGORAS: Exactly. What is true for you is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Truth is subjective.
SOCRATES: Do you really mean that? That my opinion is true by virtue of its being my opinion?
PROTAGORAS: Indeed, I do.
SOCRATES: My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you, Mr. Protagoras, are absolutely in error. Since this is my opinion, then you must grant that it is true according to your philosophy.
PROTAGORAS: You are quite correct, Socrates.
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Post by Master Warious on Nov 2, 2004 12:56:18 GMT -5
I think Sock boy is right. Truth is an absolute and not, as most people believe now, ones opinion. Even the dictionary says they are two different things.
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Post by sblomietheinsane on Nov 2, 2004 17:19:24 GMT -5
Truth can't be revative. What if I say that it's true there are little green men on the moon. Am I right? No! Hello, just because you think something doesn't make it true...
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Cenerue
Agent of Gondor
Wolfie LovercurGender[elf]
Posts: 186
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Post by Cenerue on Nov 4, 2004 9:18:08 GMT -5
Yes, I agree. You can say all you want, "if I jump off this building I won't fall" but just try it and see what happens!
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Post by Master Warious on Nov 4, 2004 20:59:46 GMT -5
Some people will actually try to do that...
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Post by BEHIND YOU!!! on Nov 6, 2004 20:55:59 GMT -5
interesting. v. interesting. seems very Vergere-like, but true. Absolute Truth has things that prove it as such-- it is absolute, it does not change, it's universal, and all that. I'm not starting a debate. very intersting!
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Post by Cy Otauna on Nov 7, 2004 10:44:55 GMT -5
True.
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Post by vanillafairyofdoom on Nov 23, 2004 14:05:21 GMT -5
I think what Protagoras might have been saying in reference to God is a sort of ideal where God exists for you if you are a believer - it's known as an anti-realist point of view. My philosophy teacher told us about a friend of his at school who didn't believe in God, and who said to him "I believe that God exists for you, but he doesn't exist for me," and to some people, that idea makes complete sense. Of course, there's a large majority who are realist and who have the same point of view as Socrates, believing in absolute truths.
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Post by Master Warious on Dec 6, 2004 15:11:52 GMT -5
Truth is an absolute not one's opinion. THere IS a difference between the two words so why does everyone confusse them?
Opinon is what you think or 'know' not what IS[b/]. Is = TRUTH.
Truth = Absolute
Absolute = God
God is absolute. God is the inventor of TRUTH.
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Post by Trinity on Dec 6, 2004 21:30:08 GMT -5
Jesus said, "I am the way, the TRUTH, and the life. No one comes to the Father but through Me" and Jesus IS God.
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Post by Master Warious on Dec 11, 2004 14:06:18 GMT -5
And all God's people said, AMEN!
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Post by SilverSergyon13 on Mar 18, 2005 23:27:56 GMT -5
You mean there really aren't little green men on the moon?
Anyway...I believe that truth is relative. I can think something totally different from all of you and believe it to be true. In my mind, that thing I believe is true, whether or not I have proof. Now just because I think it is true, doesn't mean another has to think it is true.
Everyone's reality is slightly different and often times very very different. Really, reality is what you make it. What you believe is your truth, whether or not anyone else believes.
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Post by Master Warious on Mar 20, 2005 20:17:17 GMT -5
Truth is not relative. It never was and never will be.
Example: The sky is made of air. NOT CANDY! Clouds are made of water vapor not COTTON CANDY!
I exagerate...Truth is not relative because GOD is NOT relative. God is the AUTHOR OF TRUTH! GOD is not RELATIVE!
You can believe what you want but it cannot change what is TRUE.
If you believe that 'truth is relative' I feel sorry for you and will pray you see the Truth.
God does not desire that anyone should perish but live life with him. I don't want to see people go to H3||. And if you don't believe that there is one then I am also sorry.
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Post by sblomietheinsane on Mar 21, 2005 19:30:05 GMT -5
Are you saying... you think it's true... but that doesn't mean it is for everyone else? Ahhh... I see what you mean. She is sneaky, precious.
Say I believe murdering is alright. That's fine, right? Am I allowed to act on my belief? But then there could be problems with the ones who don't believe that. What if I become a mass murderer? Is that ok since it's just my belief?
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Post by SilverSergyon13 on Mar 21, 2005 22:43:02 GMT -5
Aye, but you may believe in your God, but I believe in my God just as much as you believe in yours. Therefore I may think your religion is wrong, and you may think mine is wrong, so then who is right? Just because you have your bible and your beliefs, that makes you right? I have just as much proof as you have of your religion, but somehow yours is still more right then mine just because you think it is? This I don't get. Not to mention just because you say some one is going to Hell because they don't believe DOES NOT mean they are. I mean, who are humans to judge anyway?
These statements are a hypothetical situation, as I was confirmed Catholic, however I don't believe in much of what I have been taught to believe in. I believe what I think to be true and to me that is truth, however to you it may not be. To you, your religion is your truth.
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Post by Master Warious on Mar 22, 2005 14:06:00 GMT -5
Truth has absoultly NOTHING to do with religion. Truth is an absolute which no one wishes to accept. Man is sinfull(or bad). Absolutly true. No one has to teach a child to lie. Water is made of hydrogen and oxygen. Absolutly true.
How is this for an example?
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Post by SilverSergyon13 on Mar 22, 2005 15:10:28 GMT -5
Actually, all of that is a theory. Everything is theory. No man knows that truth of anything, otherwise no one would argue about anything, because we would know the truth.
How do you know Hydrogen is hydrogen? Or that oxygen is oxygen? If I asked you to prove this to me, using any scientific proof or experiments, you would never be able to prove to me that was true, if I felt it nessecary to believe otherwise. I have a reality and you have a reality. No two realities are the same.
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Post by Tiana, eh? on Mar 22, 2005 15:46:12 GMT -5
Your signature is all too fitting, my friend Silver. You're darker, all right. And I'm praying for you. With beliefs like that... how can you accept anything? When you get a job, will you be able to accept that your boss will pay you, or maybe he'll believe that it's only a subreality to receive a paycheck, and that money is only an illusion. How can you accept it as a truth that every Friday you'll receive your due for such?
How can you believe that you won't suddenly float away from the Earth if nothing is true? If nothing is true, then what's gravity to you?
You complain about "us Christians always proclaiming that we're the only truth" yet you proclaim your beliefs as the only truth, and you generalize. We wouldn't be doing this had you not stepped in and gave us reason to prove what we believe in.
If nothing is real, then how can someone cry when a loved one dies? How can you sit there and weep, when your beliefs are that they'll die, and they'll be nothingness, just like they came from? How can we be here on earth, with every emotion, thought, and love that we carry?
If what I've founded my faith in isn't real, tell me, why am I crying?
If no true realitys were the same, none of us would be here.
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Post by Master Warious on Mar 22, 2005 17:11:30 GMT -5
This is alomst like the argumentation of the Matrix.
Then I could start that whole blue pill red pill thing using atheism and theism...but for the sake of all our sanities...or lack thereof...I shall not.
Tiana is right.
I couldn't have said it better...or at all.
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Post by SilverSergyon13 on Mar 22, 2005 23:06:14 GMT -5
I don't get humanity....but then again, I guess I don't want to.
How can you say I don't have faith? Everyone has faith in something.
I believe in what I do because of who I am. My beliefs are a personal reflection of myself, not what the books tell me to believe.
I don't get the fact that I entered this conversation like everyone else and suddenly my faith is to be questioned? I entered with a simple statement attempting to say what I believe and now I have been slammed. I don't really care, as there is nothing binding me here.
BTW, when did I say nothing is real? I was simply stating that truth can be seen in different ways by different people. As we are seeing now, all religions have their different truths. So how can you say their is only one religious truth? Yes, for you there is. Your truth is what you believe.
Not only humans experience these emotions, so they are not all based on beliefs. For example, I recently had a pigeon lose his mate two weeks ago. Since then I see sadness in his eyes. He misses her and he cries for her. Maybe not physically, but through actions, even mentally. What does he believe about her death? I don't know. He knows she is gone and never coming back. He may never take another mate now, because he will forever remember her, forever miss her.
I once saw cows standing in a circle around a single dead cow. These cows were simply standing there, looking over this one dead cow, their family member. Again, they may not have been physically crying, but walking towards these beings I got such a strong sense of sadness, one that I have never felt in humans before. No human could produce sadness like this. It was genuine, not based on anything but love. Do these cows believe in God? Idk, but humans are not the only ones with emotions. Just because we have faith in a religion or in anything, does not give us emotions. Emotions have always been with you and they always will be.
Yes I do have a job already and if money is an illusion, then it is one I like...
It doesn't matter to me what is real or not. I take life one step at a time. If it isn't real then I am simply living life in a dream. I see no problem with that. Dreams are fun ;-)
Maybe I am darker, but I like things that way. Mysterious, taking things as they come....life is beautiful, why try to UNDERSTAND everything? Just live....see things.
And...don't be so quick to judge....
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